Ticket to Salvation?

[This is a repost from my wordpress in response to a staunch atheist to his argument that Christians can sin all they want, after all, they are saved as long as they repent of their sins and believe in Jesus before they die. A video was embedded as a reference.]

eXtreme eVolution said: March 3, 2012 at 3:01 pm

It is true that we are saved through faith, not by works, lest anyone should boast. However, God sees your innermost thoughts. If these murderers, maniacs, etc. were truly repentant, they would turn from their sins rather than continue in sin. Didn’t Jesus tell the lady who repented to “sin no more”? If you were truly saved, your fruits should show it. For what lies in your heart can be seen through your words and actions.

Galatians 5

Freedom in Christ

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Life by the Spirit

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

God's Word said: March 4, 2012 at 3:44 am

So did that Jewish girl in the video deserve to burn in hell?

eXtreme eVolution said: March 4, 2012 at 11:20 am

She didn’t burn in hell. You didn’t watch the whole video, did you?

God's Word said: March 4, 2012 at 3:21 pm

“She will always be tormented and separated from my father in a place he has created for her!”

What else can that mean? Plus she didn’t believe in Jesus so she cannot experience eternal salvation so where else can she go? Stop being disingenuous and answer the question…

Did that 15 year old girl who was raped and murdered deserve to go to hell for what she believed?

eXtreme eVolution said: March 13, 2012 at 6:18 am

I was referring to another video about the girl who went to hell and back, but anyway.

“Did that 15 year old girl who was raped and murdered deserve to go to hell for what she believed?”

Did she deserve to be raped and murdered? No.

Did she deserve to go to hell for her beliefs? Only God knows, because who are we to judge someone’s outcome according to human standards? As long as we have sinned according to God’s standards, we deserve punishment. As we all do.

By asking the question you did, you are presuming that there is a hell and there is a possibility of an afterlife. So, you can choose to ignore this video and pretend like it never happened and that this God doesn’t exist and that hell isn’t real, or you can choose to face the reality of the situation that we’re all going to face sooner or later, which is death and eternity.

God's Word said: March 24, 2012 at 3:26 pm

I’m dumbfounded… Really knocked me over here! Mate, this isn’t healthy! The correct, compassionate, humanaine answer to that question was NO! Of course an innocent 15 year old shouldn’t burn for eternity for what she believed! Neither should her rapist murderer be allowed through the pearly gates! My intention for asking you this question was to highlight what a flawed and illogical system your “God” has in place! I’m assuming heaven and hell exist for the purposes of agruement! I dont believe they do. Despite your claims of “who are we to judge a persons outcome according to human standards” you know this system is flawed! You know a young, innocent 15 year old CHILD does not deserve eternal damnation. You feel the indignant sting inside of you when you think about it. That’s compassion, empathy, human qualities that have permeated the governing of our society to ensure equality and the fair and just treatment of all. I shudder to think of a world where this biblical “God” had any ruling over our laws and practises.

eXtreme eVolution said: March 25, 2012 at 4:47 am

I did not mention anything about the murderer not receiving punishment. I am certain that he will. But the issue here is whether the girl, or for that matter, anyone else, deserves to go to hell. Unfortunately, we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God since the beginning of mankind. So we all deserved to go to hell. But in God’s mercy, He sent His Son to die for the sins of the world. So the question God is asking you is, “Do you want to accept this gift?”

Like I said, it is up to you to believe in things of the spiritual nature, or you can dismiss the existence of heaven and hell and say that there is no afterlife. The girl who died would cease to exist or feel pain. The life of most people would be pretty meaningless in that case. If there is a Judge at the end of our lives, then you can be sure that He is just. Are you ready to account for all the things you have done in your life?

God's Word said: March 26, 2012 at 3:31 pm

No, you didn’t say anything about the murderer going to heaven, I said it. God also says it because the murderer has passed this bizarre test. He believed in Jesus with all his heart and soul so he gets a pass; despite brutally torturing and murdering an innocent girl. That is what the “word of god” says. Even an ounce of critical thinking would bring you to the conclusion that this isn’t divinely inspired instruction. It is not the wisdom of an infallible, omniscient being. It comes from an archaic doctrine that reflected the knowledge of 2000 year old desert dwellers. It is an oppressive and cognitive cesspit created for the sole purpose of keeping mankind dumb and submissive.

Imagine a murderer standing up in court and saying “yes, I murdered, raped and tortoured that girl… But I acknowledge that I was wrong and I’m really really sorry!” Free to go? That is estentially what your God would allow. In what twisted reality do you see this “God” as wise and all knowing when the beings he created have more compassion and rationality than him?

We all go to hell unless we believe that an omniscient creator impregnated a virgin who begat the embodiment of himself then was sacfriced for our sins? Utter drivel!

My life doesn’t need the fear of a sky daddy to give me purpose, comfort or compassion for my fellow man.

No just God would send me to hell after seeing how I treated those around me and how I led a good life.

eXtreme eVolution said: March 31, 2012 at 6:01 am

You’re missing the point about payment for sins. At the end of your life, can you say that you have NEVER committed a sin? No. If God was unmerciful and sadistic, everyone would go to hell. Therein lies a flaw – there would be no point to create humans. Why create something just to destroy it? At this point, what exactly is your purpose in life? To eat, drink and be merry? If you died tomorrow knowing that your sins are still unpaid for, what would your “good life” have accomplished?

God's Word said: April 2, 2012 at 2:24 pm

My good life would hopefully have impacted positively on others. If we all live good lives, as a collective, this will resonate through our future generations ensuring we create a compassionate, empathetic and rational society. I think that’s something of an accomplishment. I do not need the promise of eternal salvation to be a good person. Anyone who does needs to be put in a mental hospital.

Sin is bullshit. It’s an outdated form of control. Anything that convicts you of thought crime needs to be pushed aside immediately for the benefit of mankind. “God did it, don’t think about it”. This all powerful being is able to forgive murder, rape, torture any unimaginable, horrific crime yet refuses to forgive one fairly common “sin”. What’s the one sin the amazing entity will not forgive?…… Disbelief. As long as you believe without question or doubt you can be saved. It doesn’t matter what you’ve done, just believe without question and you’ll be forgiven.

Any system of belief that requires this from you should be severely questioned and reasoned. Especially when such a system has NO demonstrable evidence to substantiate any of its claims.

eXtreme eVolution said: April 4, 2012 at 12:42 pm

Yes, we do not need the promise of eternal salvation to be a good person. That would be trying to work your way to heaven. Anyone who thinks that doing good deeds can get you to heaven needs to be put in a mental hospital. Salvation is freely given by Christ. Good deeds pour out of a grateful and humble heart.

Sin does not solely refer to thought crime. It consists any wrongdoing produced by a spirit of pride, envy, lust, greed, wrath, sloth, gluttony. If thought crime is bullshit, then there shouldn’t be a distinction between charges of manslaughter and murder with intent. God does not forgive murder, rape or torture (all are considered sins). Like I said, He will punish them in the lake of fire. It is your choice if you want to remain attached to them or be free from them.

Believing something without testing it would be foolish. Mind you, not all who believe in Jesus will be forgiven. The devils believe in Jesus too. What evidence, then, can you provide to support your claim that this belief system has NO demonstrable evidence to substantiate any of its claims? I know many with testimonies of miraculous healings, witnessed demonic beings and cast them out in the name of Jesus. The spiritual realm is more real than you imagine.

God gives everyone a choice to accept Jesus’ gift of taking away the burden of sin. If you refuse to give up the burden of your sin, God’s not going to stop you, but He will punish sin either way. It’s up to you if you want to be burnt together with it, or be separated from it. Good deeds cannot make up for the damage that has already been done by your past misdeeds. If the mortal body has already been decayed by sin, embalming it with good deeds cannot restore the body.

God's Word said: April 6, 2012 at 3:10 pm

Everything you just said about how God punishes sin and how Jesus offers the gift of salvation backs up my initial statement. What demonstrable evidence can you give me that would make me believe this? None? Because there is NONE! That was my point. You’re making these wild claims and I’m asking you to provide me a reason to believe them. All you have is archaic assertions from man.

If we were both in Afghanistan right now you’d be quoting the Qur’an and praising Mohammad. If we were in India you’d be saying the same thing about Krishna. You’d also be no more right in what you’re saying because all religions have the same theme. You just have to believe. They offer nothing and ask you to shut down your cognitive processes.

Your claim that seeing demons cast out and miraculous healings can count towards some sort of proof is laughable. Do you know what demonstrable evidence is? These things don’t fall into that category. They’re illusions, scams, playing on superstition and willful ignorance. Tell me, did any of these miraculous healings involve an amputee growing his/her limb back? When the demon was cast out did it stand before the congregation in plain sight? The human mind is very powerful and can conjure all sorts of things and it is there where the spirit realm lies.

This video is interesting if you want to hear what science says about hearing God’s voice and hallucinations:

eXtreme eVolution said: April 7, 2012 at 4:34 am

Yes, limb growing is possible. In fact, there are plenty of limb-growing street healings that you can find on youtube. And yes, I have heard of testimonies that have seen physical manifestations of demons in the form of humans. There were several witnesses who can testify to that. They were actually staying in a hotel in two separate rooms but encountered the demon at similar times and had similar descriptions.

eXtreme eVolution said: April 7, 2012 at 4:52 am

You may want to check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GquyjOHnpA or thewayofthemaster on Youtube to check out the arguments posed for and against Christian beliefs.

God's Word said: April 11, 2012 at 1:38 am

Ouch! Please don’t post anymore Ray Comfort videos on here, he hurts my brain! I mean, really???? If he’s the best spokesperson you’ve got for your fairy tails, you’re fucked!! The guy is an idiot!

However, on another topic, I took your advice and opened my mind! Upon your suggestion I did a YouTube search for limb-growing street healings……. Ummmm first point I noted is that none of the participants in the healings grew any limbs back… Now, that’s a little puzzling, the reason you advised me to check it out was to show me how miracle healings can grow back limbs. That doesn’t happen… So they can’t….. So I was right… Thank you! Perhaps I missed that one video where some bogus street scammer, like Todd White or whoever, magically grows back an amputees leg! I know I searched bloody hard for it! So please do post a link to it if you’ve got it!

Are you familiar with the power of suggestion? It’s a very interesting system where you can implant something into someone’s subconscious and have them do and feel things. It’s fascinating, nothing magical or miraculous about it though! Plus it’s the tool that street healers and other scam artists use!

I also noticed you mentioned people who saw demons. You’ve heard of some untestable, unprovable drivel that accounts for some sort of proof for you and you’re convinced… Just like that! You stated:

“I have heard of testimonies that have seen physical manifestations of demons in the form of humans”

…. In the form of humans… Physical manifestations of demons in the form of HUMANS!! So they saw humans then! Not demons, humans!! What are you talking about?? How do you distinguish between an evil human being and someone who is a demon in human form? It’s just nonsense mate! I cannot begin to understand how you swallow this garbage whole! Nothing about this universe suggests anything supernatural ever occurred! It’s all made up; conjured from the minds of highly intelligent, self aware mammalian creatures.

God is a figment of our collective imaginations. Your God and the Gods that came before him are all fabrications and attempts to make sense of the mysteries that surround us. All the thousands and thousands of Gods came from the minds of men. Your God is no different.

eXtreme eVolution said: April 12, 2012 at 10:17 am

When I say physical manifestations, I mean eye-witness accounts of frightening yet human-looking “ghost” encounters in the hotels. The “ghosts” tried to attack them while they were on a mission trip. And these “ghosts” vanished after they prayed to God. So I suppose you’ve seen humans who appear and disappear into thin air? And these witnesses are my relatives – people I actually know. Would you discredit someone whom you personally know when they tell you something they fully believe is true?

God's Word said: April 13, 2012 at 1:41 pm

Yes, if someone I knew tried to convince me they saw a “ghost” or a “demon ghost in human form”, I would feel it absolutely necessary to doubt and question it. My relationship to the person that’s making the claim wouldn’t matter. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If somebody is absolutely convinced they saw a ghost, that doesn’t stand on its own! I wouldn’t call them a liar, for they may believe that’s what they saw, but I’d thoroughly question their claims. In these situations there’s nearly always a more logical explanation!

Ghosts are largely untestable and unprovable. Any scientific experiment that has been done to try and detect something paranormal has failed.

They to exist in the minds of men. I don’t know what your relations saw, but I would wager that it isn’t what they thought they saw.

eXtreme eVolution said: April 14, 2012 at 6:15 am

But two groups of them? In different rooms? I am sure they are intelligent enough to question what they saw or felt.

Incident 2:

A relative was strangled by a pillow by an unseen being in the middle of the night. After calling out to Jesus, the strangling stopped. There was no one in the room. Obviously, there would be no evidence to prove this incident ever occurred, but personal encounters like that are hard to forget.

Instance 3:

An unseen being saved another relative from a car crash that could have occurred. The person worked on a night shift and fell asleep while speeding along the highway. While sleeping, he felt someone turn the steering wheel to the right, which woke him up. He realised that his vehicle had just swerved to miss another vehicle on the left lane.

Instance 4:

A close relative who was a non-believer, used to live a life of drinking, smoking and gambling, and had no intention of turning his life around. He had an incident on the road in which he heard a voice that “pierced his heart” telling him to quit his habits. That made him believe in the existence of the supernatural.

Instance 5:

A local missionary who had worked overseas recounted an incident where their mission team’s jeep broke down in the middle of a deserted road which was miles away from the next town. They tried their best to repair the vehicle but could not get the vehicle to start. With nothing left to lose, they decided to pray to God to fix the car, inwardly doubting that God would respond to such a request. Nothing happened. They tried again the second time. Nothing happened. The third time, they decided to lay hands on the vehicle and pray in faith. The jeep roared to life when they started the engine. The engine sounded even better than it had originally sounded. And they drove on without further incident.

Instance 6:

There have been several people, male and female, in my church who revealed that they had been diagnosed with various cancers, so the church prayed for them and they would share their progress every week. Their doctors were astounded that their cancer cells gradually reduced over time.

Instance 7:

A couple had been married for years but could not bear children. One year, they attended a healing session at another church to see a preacher who had the gift of healing. When they went there, the preacher knew what their difficulty was and told them that they would bear a child. Within the same month, the mother discovered she was pregnant with her first child.

Instance 8:

Peter (pseudonym), a man who had been scheduled for a coronary bypass, received a call one day from an old friend for a chat. Peter told him about his heart problems, and was recommended another doctor. This second doctor discovered that the previous doctor had given him a poor diagnosis and treatment. Instead of 1 coronary bypass, Peter’s heart condition had been in a such a severe state that he actually needed 3 bypass surgeries. Today, Peter survives and is currently enjoying his newly given lease of life. Both men had been Christian friends for many years before this incident. It was a case of right person, right time.

I have heard of so many testimonies from people of various walks of life both overseas and locally that I know that supernatural occurrences are possible. I will gladly share more testimonies from people I know if you like.

In the meantime, I will continue to keep you in my prayers. God will make His presence known to you.